Today (12 April 2003) was Carat Media Services India CEO Meenakshi Madhvani's last day in office. The presence of her entire team in office on a Saturday (the long weekend notwithstanding) could be a tribute to this "iron lady" amongst media specialist agency head honchos. Madhvani has completed the "smooth handover" - "because Sulina (Menon - the new Carat CEO) has been with the company since inception. A true Capricorn, Madhvani has developed a reputation for being a successful media start-up specialist, although she refuses to admit it.

After spending 23 years in the media business, Madhvani still remembers to pay rich tributes to her mentors Shunu Sen, Alyque Padamsee and Subhash Chandra. Madhvani says she watches Star World (Malcolm in the Middle) and Zee English (Mad about you). She also watches a lot of BBC, CBNC and Discovery. She loves gardening (has a terrace garden) and says that her previous two jobs have given her several opportunities to travel the length and breadth of the globe.

In a tête-à-tête with indiantelevision.com's Ashwin Kotian, Madhvani talks about the existing scenario while deftly evading controversial questions. Excerpts:

From zero to Rs 3 billion plus within five years is a long journey. What would you say were your major achievements since taking up the challenge of shepherding India's first media specialist agency?
It was in February 1997 that I accepted the challenge of setting up India's first media specialist agency. I had to do everything, right from applying for FIPB (Foreign Investments Promotion Board) clearance, to getting the necessary legal approvals, to finding office space, to building the right team.

Today, we have 75 people in the Carat group out of which 45 are in Carat India. It was an amazing learning experience and I must admit that I never really realised the magnitude of the challenge when I first accepted it. Sometimes, I really felt naïve and foolish for not taking the advice of friends who warned me against accepting the offer. But, now, I have a sense of satisfaction and fulfilment.

The other important achievement was that we defied all odds - even the market leaders said that India wasn't ready for a media specialist agency. Within two years after Carat's launch, most of the other ad agencies set up similar models. Carat (myself and our team) changed the entire environment. That is something which I always love doing - leave my impact and make a mark. The success of Carat also highlighted this aspect of my career.

What difficulties did you encounter then to ensure that the advertisers/clients accepted a media specialist agency? Are there any differences now in the way clients look at things?
For the first three years, it was purely concept selling; educating clients about the need and role of media specialist agencies. It was not about "why we are better than the rest of the pack" - which is happening now - but more in terms of "why a media independent". A lot of clients had a lot of resistance to split the creative and media aspects of the business.

We had to impress the clients that planning and buying has more to do with marketing as compared to creative. After all, the two-way communication process between the brand and the consumer has two dimensions - the message and the medium. Planning and buying related to the selection of the right medium.

Remember, that the second most expensive item of expenditure in a client's books after "the cost of goods" is media expenditure. But, decisions related to the ad spends are decentralised and even the product manager is empowered to take them. A lesser amount for some other activity might sometimes require board approval. The traditional view of media is that of an "enabler". But, we have managed to change this perception and have apprised clients of the paradigm shift.

When we bagged Cadbury's in 1998, everything changed and there was no looking back. There are clients such as Bacardi who swear by us. Even now, there are creative agencies which have realised our value and outsourced work from us. We have worked with Equus, Dhar & Hoon and you are already aware of Percept-Carat Integra.

How important are international alignments in the case of media specialist agencies as compared to creative agencies?
In the case of media specialist agencies, international alignments aren't as rigid as it is in the case of creative agencies. In the case of media specialist agencies, every agency has to prove its credentials. Even after our parent organisation won the mandate for Philips worldwide, we still have to fight our way through across every market in Asia Pacific. Media solutions have to be local not global or regional. Clients judge such agencies for their local expertise and acumen.

Give us some examples of proprietary tools used by Carat?
Carat has its own share of proprietary tools and techniques which delve into the entire communication planning process.

Take for instance, the Scheduler, allows us to look at diagnostics - for instance "does one creative work better than the other?" - and working out relevant strengths. Tracer, a data visualisation tool, examines relationships - for instance "the role of distribution in the sales of a product".

As I said earlier, Carat is much more than a media services agency. It is a partner. When Mahesh Mahadevan of Bacardi (we bagged it in December 1997) claimed that Carat is an extension of his marketing department, it is an indication that we are doing the right things.

At Carat, training takes place constantly in order to open new avenues of thought processes, new technology, new tools amongst others.

I am a sceptic of the training methodology used by media specialist agencies which claim that they send planners on the field (rural areas). Every agency has headcount related issues and executives have their daily responsibilities. There are people within the team who belong to different communities and who have relatives in different places. What is needed is a sense of curiosity to gather information from different sources - be it friends, relatives, client dealers etc.

How has the TV industry scenario evolved since the days when you marketed airtime for Zee?
Two things have changed the face of the television industry. The first one is a plethora of options in the last five years.

However, it is sad that all the old and new channels look like clones of one another. One just has to remove the logo of the channel and most people wouldn't even notice the difference. The same is true of all the recent news channels.

Every one is adopting a cookie cutter approach to broadcasting. This kind of an approach (lack of differentiation) will herald in the eventual downfall of several channels in the post CAS (conditional access system) scenario. Not many channels will survive if consumers/viewers exercise their option.

As far as Zee is concerned, I feel that they have made the right moves in the last one year or so with their clear cut strategy positioning. What they need is patience and success will come their way. As far as Star is concerned, the fatigue level for the 'saas-bahu' serials is evident. The Star team is already in the process of taking corrective measures. Sony hasn't benefited at all from the cricket World Cup although MAX did.

Reality TV in India won't succeed because every day of survival in the metros is a reality show. The AXN shows' hosts could make a reality series out of travelling in our suburban trains and buses - I wonder how many would survive. Shows such as Popstars (Channel [V] and Everest Takkar (NGC) might appeal to certain niche audiences. Each of these smaller initiatives will add to the sum of the whole reality genre.

What is your take on CAS or conditional access system?
There are two aspects of CAS - the intention and the implementation. The cookie cutter approach and lack of differentiation adopted by broadcasters will herald in the downfall of several channels in the post CAS scenario.

Firstly, the intentions of the government are very clear. The other aspect is the implementation process which involves the set top boxes. It will take time to implement the same in the whole country. I don't see much of an impact in 2003 but things will change by mid 2004.

The point is that the C&S channels have eaten into the share of the terrestrial channel in recent years. However, within, this share, there is tremendous fragmentation. CAS might change the scenario a little bit. However, if Doordarshan expects to see an overnight change from July 2003 onwards, it is sadly mistaken.

What are the new sectors which are increasing their spends?
Ad spends have increased considerably in the telecom sector - thanks to Reliance Infocomm. Earlier, all the other telecom clients were used to support media with realistic numbers but Reliance changed the face of the industry. However, I feel that they have gone overboard and the rationalisation process is already underway. The inflated levels in the telecom sector spends will drop down to more realistic levels. It will stabilise.

Insurance which was heralded as the "sun rise" sector didn't really live upto expectations. People were talking of spends in the region of Rs 5 billion. Even at that time, I predicted Rs 2 billion and current statistics indicate that the figure is slightly less than the Rs 2 billion mark. Life Insurance Corporation reacted brilliantly and put its act together. The market actually expanded. One must remember that ad spends decrease in the case of a market expansion scenario and increase when one has to grab the share of other competitors.

FMCGs (fast moving consumer goods) have been under pressure and will continue to be under pressure for the next two years or so. The infrastructure sector could open primarily due to the impetus given in Budget 2003. I see it around Rs 1.5 billion. I don't see much action in the health sector because the demand exceeds the supply. The health sector is a capital intensive and a lot of money will be spent in building health infrastructure rather than on advertising.

What is your take on below-the-line spending?
The last two years have been an eye opener in terms of trends in below-the-line spends. However, there were two separate aspects - one is the promotional bandwagon into which several clients jumped.

The focus was on buying volumes as marketers realised that consumers wanted freebies. The second aspect involves those below-the-line activities which concentrate on brand building - things such as CRM (customer relationship management), Consumer Connect amongst others. India is moving in sync with the global trends. The focus on below-the-line activities is because of the inflation in media and the inherent fragmentation.

I must mention that it is disturbing to see that many ad agencies and planners haven't realised the true power of the Internet. For Cadbury's, we have done some amazing work; derived tremendous benefits from comparatively low outlays. The medium of the Net is there with the consumer's mind 24X7X365. Its part of our life space.

What are your future plans? There are rumours that you are going abroad?
I love the Indian media and advertising scene and the market loves and recognises me. I shall always be here - it is better to be an "empress" in our own country rather than being small fry in the region or the globe. I shall definitely remember you when I intend to share "breaking news" with media people.